In this episode of The Relational Podcast, host Ana Amrein Esnaola (Efecto Colibrí) welcomes Catherine Dempsey, a collaborative development and social change practitioner, to discover how resourcing rooted in relationships can transform systems.

From the simple act of listening to birds to the complex work of reimagining funding, Ana and Catherine unpack how interdependence powers lasting change.

Together they explore how participatory grantmaking, relational resourcing and shared governance shift power, showing how centering relationships turns isolated projects into resilient ecosystems.

Catherine shares grounded examples of funders and grassroots groups reimagining money not as a transaction but as part of a living system — where trust, shared learning, and community power guide decisions.

The conversation highlights why relational approaches to resourcing are more than a method: they are infrastructure for democracy, resilience, and creativity in a time of global challenge.

You’ll hear practical ways to begin — starting with deep listening — and why seeing yourself as part of a living ecosystem (not just an organization) unlocks new flows of resources, energy, and care. If you’re a funder, nonprofit leader, community organizer, or someone who believes we rise by lifting each other, this conversation offers a clear path to build community power, strengthen resilience, and catalyze systemic shifts — wing to wing.

• 00:59 — Meet Catherine: Collaborative development & social value
• 02:31 — Birds, sky, connection: Everyday cues for interdependence
• 09:25 — Participatory grantmaking: Community power in funding
• 13:09 — Relational approaches at work: From silos to ecosystems
• 27:02 — Governance & consensus: What inclusive decisions look like
• 30:44 — Why now: Democracy, resilience, and trust-based practice
• 31:57 — Start here: Deep listening as a daily discipline

Links:

https://www.participatorygrantmaking.org/

https://www.camdengiving.org.uk/ 

https://ageing-better.org.uk/uk-network-age-friendly-communities

https://www.jrf.org.uk/imagination-infrastructures/surviving-on-breadcrumbs-resourcing-radical-hope 

https://medium.com/@sally_85532/connecting-hope-for-alternative-futures-32ca83dd318a

https://localmotion.org.uk/

https://www.tnlcommunityfund.org.uk/funding/programmes/our-vision-for-funding-in-england

A big shout-out to the Wasan community for bringing us together – especially Meg Busse, Rachel Sinha, Christine Lai and Melanie Kahl, facilitators of the “Making the Case for Relationality” huddle.

We appreciate your role in fostering this conversation.Thank you for tuning in!By sharing this episode and letting others know what inspired you, you help expand the community of co-creators building a more compassionate world. Dive deeper into our work at efectocolibri.com and join us in sparking the collective change we all envision.

We value your voice—together, we can empower social innovation.

Conceived and co-created during a Wasan Network small group in partnership with Huddlecraft. Wasan is a global network of social impact and philanthropy practitioners who believe that relationships sit at the center of social change. Learn more: https://www.wasan-network.org/

Production and dissemination by Efecto Colibrí: Efecto Colibrí blends storytelling, social innovation, and the power of relationships to produce and distribute original and partner podcasts that bridge communities and sectors, shift mindsets, and spark action toward a more just, diverse, and regenerative future. Learn more https://efectocolibri.com/en/

Artwork by Anjali Chandrashekar. https://anjalic.com/About